What's the deal with spears? - Guild Wars Forums

Smith23 · Jul 21, 2010, 05:07 PM // 17:07

What's the deal with spears? Again let us edit the title!

OK I know I'm probably missing something important here but I noticed from the Battle for Lion's Arch and other mission done with real players a lot of people have their characters using spears who aren't paragons or even half paragons? Anyone want to clue me in on why spears are good to have?

Anti Welfare · Jul 21, 2010, 05:16 PM // 17:16

iirc it has to do with attack speed vs staff or whatever other weapon

Arduin · Jul 21, 2010, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Keeping up adrenaline at range.

Ability to use +20% enchantment mod.

TheHarrowed · Jul 21, 2010, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Alot of casters want a one handed weapon as well as a focus (or defensive shield), rather than using a staff. Wands don't have an enchanting wrapping, or a +5energy inscription that has no requirement. Marital weapons have both. Most choose to use a spear rather than sword/axe, as its still a ranged weaopn, so when auto-attacking, they won't get forced into the frontline. Plus things like voltaic spears are expensive/look kinda nice.

This is how I see it anyway, and really why I use a caster spear alot.

Fabez · Jul 21, 2010, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Warriors use them to gain adrenaline from a distance to charge up their skills before the fight has actually started.

Caster professions use martial weapons for the unconditional energy bonus (+5) it gives them, along with the extra health (+30) or increased enchantment duration (+20%).

The energy bonus is only available conditionally on caster weapons, while the extra health and increased enchantment are only available on a staff.

Should they wish to auto-attack for any reason (for example, triggering Barbs), they can do so from a safe distance.

Cuilan · Jul 21, 2010, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Holding a wand or staff as opposed to martial weapons such as a sword, bow, or scythe creates additional aggro. Only applies to allies within the foe's danger zone.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Aggro
I have a spear for the above in quotes or for a silencing mod when running a Fevered Dreams or Extend Conditions build.

Zacchius · Jul 21, 2010, 05:51 PM // 17:51

I use a +5e +20% enchant spear with silencing for when I use technobabble, can't get any of that on a wand, and can't get silencing on a staff

Zodiac Meteor · Jul 21, 2010, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Enemy AI like staffs or wands over spears in PvE. A healer that isn't targeted is good. Simple.

Dzjudz · Jul 21, 2010, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Also, wands are pretty useless for spirit spammers (no spells) so a spear is a good alternative.

Lukyboy · Jul 21, 2010, 06:30 PM // 18:30

To me it also seems that, if you're wielding a spear as a caster, you have less chance to be hexed with Backfire and other anti-caster hexes.

+ all the above

Fabez · Jul 21, 2010, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukyboy

To me it also seems that, if you're wielding a spear as a caster, you have less chance to be hexed with Backfire and other anti-caster hexes.

+ all the above

Lukyboy's observation is correct, although it applies to any martial weapon and not just spears.

In short, it boils down to the following:
- spears allow adrenaline to be build up/kept up at range
- martial weapons have access to modifications that wands, focii and staves don't (or are unconditional, in the case of +5 energy)
- the weapons (or their modifications) can interact with skills (increasing the duration of conditions, triggering Barbs, etc.)
- you can "trick" the AI (making them believe you are less of a priority target, or prevent them from casting the appropriate hex on you)

sonofthort · Jul 21, 2010, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Also, if you are using certain necro spells like barbs, mark of pain, or orders, it is nice to give your heroes spears.

Rhamia Darigaz · Jul 22, 2010, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Assuming the players are good:

They are wielding spears not mainly for the spear itself, but for the shield that holding a one-handed weapon allows them to have. Since, while you're not casting, mods that half casting time or recharge time are useless, it makes sense to idle in a defensive set to mitigate as much damage as possible and switch to appropriately modded caster sets when you want to cast a spell.

Obviously a shield is the best off-hand for a defensive set, giving +8/15/16 armor depending on your ability to spec into its attribute, +10 armor vs a specific damage type, and +30 health. Since the whole point of the set it to sit in it while not casting, wands are useless. This leaves axes, swords, and spears. Since axes and swords are melee while spears are ranged, most people choose spears for the ability to interrupt dazed targets, trigger physical damage buffs, neutralize a Reversal of Fortune, etc. without putting themselves dangerously out of position. Common mods on a (real) caster spear include: +5 or -5 energy inscriptions to increase or hide energy in the defensive set, +30 hp or +5 armor mods to further increase survivability, and any prefix mod that might have some build-specific benefit like Furious or an elemental damage modifier.

Realistically, or The Ignorant Masses:

Most players completely misinterpret the trend among more skilled players of bringing a set in which the main-hand weapon is a spear. They tend to use a butchered version of the caster spear with a +20% enchantment duration mod because they use enchantments and don't like weapon swapping. Other weapons found on these players might include: A focus for "energy management", a shield with -5/20 for "uber damage mitigation", or, somehow, another spear with +20% enchantment duration because that's just how much they misinterpret the point of a spear on a caster.

Quaker · Jul 22, 2010, 04:17 PM // 16:17

My response is somewhat like Rhamia's above.

There are a lot of PvP players who carry over the weapons and tactics from PvP into PvE. These are usually the players that promote the use of, and the switching to, various weapon sets. These players generally know what they are doing, but these PvP-based tactics are rarely, if ever, actually needed in PvE. However, they are used to playing that way, and it works for them.

Unfortunately, what you usually end up with, as Rhamia sort of says, are a bunch of less skilled, more PvE oriented players who copy these weapon sets and tactics, without fully understanding why they would use them or what mods etc., are useful. They are, quite frankly, more interested in what looks "leet".

A typical example of the odd-ball thinking of some of these people is the statement that using a spear "keeps you at a distance and out of harm's way". But, if you were to discuss Ranger's bows, these same people would tell you not to use a shortbow (same range as a spear) because it "takes you too close to the action and into harm's way".

After 5+ years of PvE play, I am sure that the actually difference between using one weapon set and another (provided they aren't totally wrong) is basically insignificant. It's more important to feel comfortable with what you are using and to know how the weapon set synergizes with your build.

I've completed BLA with all 11 of my active characters and at least 4 of those were just me, a buddy, and 4 heroes - the rest were PUGs. In no cases was I using anything you would call a "leet" weapon set (or even a weapon not meant for the character).
The closest would be that my Imbagon uses a focus (for the energy - but not management

) rather than a shield. (A Celestial Compass and a Furious Voltaic Spear - I'm not totally against looking leet-ish

)

So, to answer the OP's question - the reasons why spears would be good to have (in PvE) are very minor - it's more about looks than anything else.

Ghengis Kwell · Jul 22, 2010, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHarrowed

Marital weapons have both.

What build is best defense agasint an attack by one of these ?

Snograt · Jul 22, 2010, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Rofl - maybe a question your wife should have asked, Ghengis

Zebideedee · Jul 24, 2010, 09:47 AM // 09:47

To OP, do you mean the e-peen (lollable) v-spear and tormy shield combo (rolls eyes). I'm guessing the people that use that combo also voted 10 stars for the Dark Knight on imdb

Lillium · Aug 03, 2010, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zacchius

I use a +5e +20% enchant spear with silencing for when I use technobabble, can't get any of that on a wand, and can't get silencing on a staff

^ that's why we use spears. Because frankly the mods are just that much better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukyboy

To me it also seems that, if you're wielding a spear as a caster, you have less chance to be hexed with Backfire and other anti-caster hexes.

+ all the above

^ Not so much. As soon as the AI sees you casting spells you're going to get backfired etc if there's more than one mob with it. Happens on an assassin with anything melee, dervish, and even a warrior if he's got a spell or two. And if all your casters are holding spears... Well that spell's going to get cast somewhere. Might go onto the one guy with the wand first, maybe, but most often a moment later the AI watches everyone fire off spells and your weapon selection becomes irrelevant. I hear that reasoning all the time for why people use spears, but if you're really watching what the AI is doing and who's getting hexed/targeted with what you will find that it is not nearly as effective as assumed.
There may be something to say for energy hiding against excessive energy denial, but that's better accomplished in PvE with a high energy set swap - which specifically includes a wand that you will be holding through all of the actual fighting unless you're a healer.

So really, do it if the mods suit you better. Or even the skins just suit you better - because that is a very valid reason, just ask anybody who forked out ectos for a froggy. Not for trying to abuse the AI in ways that don't work nearly as well as keeps getting repeated.

Quaker · Aug 03, 2010, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillium

^ that's why we use spears. Because frankly the mods are just that much better.

Hm, +5e plus 20% longer enchants plus 33% longer dazed (plus shield mods).

Is that really better than the 10e, plus +5e, plus +5e^50 (20e total), plus 20% enchants, plus HSR 20%, that you could get with a staff? In all cases?

Or 10e, plus +5e^50, plus +30 health, plus 20% enchants?

Is the loss of the extra energy and/or HCT and/or other mods really worth the longer dazed? How about when the party already has a BHA interrupt Ranger?

Bottom line - it's always a trade-off. There are no mods that are "just that much better".

MisterB · Aug 03, 2010, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

Hm, +5e plus 20% longer enchants plus 33% longer dazed (plus +8 armor from a shield).

Is that really better than the 10e, plus 20% enchants (20e total), plus +5e, plus +5e^50, plus HSR 20%, that you could get with a staff? In all cases?

Or 10e, plus +5e^50, plus +30 health, plus 20% enchants?

Is the loss of the extra energy and/or HCT and/or other mods really worth the longer dazed? How about when the party already has a BHA interrupt Ranger?

Bottom line - it's always a trade-off. There are no mods that are "just that much better".

That's why you have four weapon sets, so you can switch between your martial set, high energy, and casting. Energy and casting bonuses are useless when you are not casting a spell, so you can equip more health and armor instead. You do not have to settle for just one weapon.

Jul 21, 2010, 05:07 PM // 17:07	#1
Smith23 Guest Join Date: May 2010 Profession: E/	What's the deal with spears? What's the deal with spears? Again let us edit the title! OK I know I'm probably missing something important here but I noticed from the Battle for Lion's Arch and other mission done with real players a lot of people have their characters using spears who aren't paragons or even half paragons? Anyone want to clue me in on why spears are good to have? Last edited by Smith23; Jul 21, 2010 at 05:15 PM // 17:15.. Reason: typo

Jul 22, 2010, 08:00 AM // 08:00	#13
Rhamia Darigaz Desert Nomad Join Date: Apr 2008	Assuming the players are good: They are wielding spears not mainly for the spear itself, but for the shield that holding a one-handed weapon allows them to have. Since, while you're not casting, mods that half casting time or recharge time are useless, it makes sense to idle in a defensive set to mitigate as much damage as possible and switch to appropriately modded caster sets when you want to cast a spell. Obviously a shield is the best off-hand for a defensive set, giving +8/15/16 armor depending on your ability to spec into its attribute, +10 armor vs a specific damage type, and +30 health. Since the whole point of the set it to sit in it while not casting, wands are useless. This leaves axes, swords, and spears. Since axes and swords are melee while spears are ranged, most people choose spears for the ability to interrupt dazed targets, trigger physical damage buffs, neutralize a Reversal of Fortune, etc. without putting themselves dangerously out of position. Common mods on a (real) caster spear include: +5 or -5 energy inscriptions to increase or hide energy in the defensive set, +30 hp or +5 armor mods to further increase survivability, and any prefix mod that might have some build-specific benefit like Furious or an elemental damage modifier. Realistically, or The Ignorant Masses: Most players completely misinterpret the trend among more skilled players of bringing a set in which the main-hand weapon is a spear. They tend to use a butchered version of the caster spear with a +20% enchantment duration mod because they use enchantments and don't like weapon swapping. Other weapons found on these players might include: A focus for "energy management", a shield with -5/20 for "uber damage mitigation", or, somehow, another spear with +20% enchantment duration because that's just how much they misinterpret the point of a spear on a caster. Last edited by Rhamia Darigaz; Jul 22, 2010 at 08:03 AM // 08:03..

Jul 22, 2010, 04:17 PM // 16:17	#14
Quaker Hell's Protector Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Canada Guild: Brothers Disgruntled	My response is somewhat like Rhamia's above. There are a lot of PvP players who carry over the weapons and tactics from PvP into PvE. These are usually the players that promote the use of, and the switching to, various weapon sets. These players generally know what they are doing, but these PvP-based tactics are rarely, if ever, actually needed in PvE. However, they are used to playing that way, and it works for them. Unfortunately, what you usually end up with, as Rhamia sort of says, are a bunch of less skilled, more PvE oriented players who copy these weapon sets and tactics, without fully understanding why they would use them or what mods etc., are useful. They are, quite frankly, more interested in what looks "leet". A typical example of the odd-ball thinking of some of these people is the statement that using a spear "keeps you at a distance and out of harm's way". But, if you were to discuss Ranger's bows, these same people would tell you not to use a shortbow (same range as a spear) because it "takes you too close to the action and into harm's way". After 5+ years of PvE play, I am sure that the actually difference between using one weapon set and another (provided they aren't totally wrong) is basically insignificant. It's more important to feel comfortable with what you are using and to know how the weapon set synergizes with your build. I've completed BLA with all 11 of my active characters and at least 4 of those were just me, a buddy, and 4 heroes - the rest were PUGs. In no cases was I using anything you would call a "leet" weapon set (or even a weapon not meant for the character). The closest would be that my Imbagon uses a focus (for the energy - but not management ) rather than a shield. (A Celestial Compass and a Furious Voltaic Spear - I'm not totally against looking leet-ish ) So, to answer the OP's question - the reasons why spears would be good to have (in PvE) are very minor - it's more about looks than anything else. Last edited by Quaker; Jul 22, 2010 at 04:32 PM // 16:32..

Jul 22, 2010, 09:43 PM // 21:43	#16
Snograt rattus rattus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, UK GMT??0 ??1hr DST Guild: [GURU]GW [wiki]GW2 Profession: R/	Rofl - maybe a question your wife should have asked, Ghengis __________________ Si non confectus, non reficiat

Jul 21, 2010, 05:16 PM // 17:16	#2
Anti Welfare Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Aug 2009 Guild: For Goods Sake Profession: R/	iirc it has to do with attack speed vs staff or whatever other weapon

Jul 21, 2010, 05:19 PM // 17:19	#3
Arduin Grotto Attendant Join Date: May 2005 Location: The Netherlands Guild: Limburgse Jagers [LJ] Profession: R/	Keeping up adrenaline at range. Ability to use +20% enchantment mod.

Jul 21, 2010, 05:20 PM // 17:20	#4
TheHarrowed Academy Page Join Date: Apr 2009 Profession: A/	Alot of casters want a one handed weapon as well as a focus (or defensive shield), rather than using a staff. Wands don't have an enchanting wrapping, or a +5energy inscription that has no requirement. Marital weapons have both. Most choose to use a spear rather than sword/axe, as its still a ranged weaopn, so when auto-attacking, they won't get forced into the frontline. Plus things like voltaic spears are expensive/look kinda nice. This is how I see it anyway, and really why I use a caster spear alot.

Jul 21, 2010, 05:21 PM // 17:21	#5
Fabez Academy Page Join Date: Jul 2009 Profession: N/	Warriors use them to gain adrenaline from a distance to charge up their skills before the fight has actually started. Caster professions use martial weapons for the unconditional energy bonus (+5) it gives them, along with the extra health (+30) or increased enchantment duration (+20%). The energy bonus is only available conditionally on caster weapons, while the extra health and increased enchantment are only available on a staff. Should they wish to auto-attack for any reason (for example, triggering Barbs), they can do so from a safe distance.

Jul 21, 2010, 05:51 PM // 17:51	#7
Zacchius Academy Page Join Date: Sep 2008 Guild: Us Are Not [leet] Profession: N/	I use a +5e +20% enchant spear with silencing for when I use technobabble, can't get any of that on a wand, and can't get silencing on a staff

Jul 21, 2010, 05:58 PM // 17:58	#8
Zodiac Meteor Imma Firin Mah Rojway! Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: At the Mac Store laughing at people that walk out with anything. Profession: E/Mo	Enemy AI like staffs or wands over spears in PvE. A healer that isn't targeted is good. Simple.

Jul 21, 2010, 06:26 PM // 18:26	#9
Dzjudz Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz	Also, wands are pretty useless for spirit spammers (no spells) so a spear is a good alternative.

Jul 21, 2010, 06:30 PM // 18:30	#10
Lukyboy Elite Guru Join Date: Nov 2007 Guild: The Mirror of Reason [SNOW] Profession: D/A	To me it also seems that, if you're wielding a spear as a caster, you have less chance to be hexed with Backfire and other anti-caster hexes. + all the above

Jul 21, 2010, 07:56 PM // 19:56	#12
sonofthort Krytan Explorer Join Date: Mar 2006 Guild: The Legends Of Melee [SSBM] Profession: Mo/	Also, if you are using certain necro spells like barbs, mark of pain, or orders, it is nice to give your heroes spears.

Jul 24, 2010, 09:47 AM // 09:47	#17
Zebideedee Jungle Guide Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: 55?? 57' 0" N / 3?? 12' 0" W Profession: N/Me	To OP, do you mean the e-peen (lollable) v-spear and tormy shield combo (rolls eyes). I'm guessing the people that use that combo also voted 10 stars for the Dark Knight on imdb